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#1  
Old 06-27-05, 10:02 pm
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Disanto Stands up for the Taxpayers! Sidewalk Replacement Specs Meeting June 27 2005


Sidewalk Replacement Criteria: 20% of all cost absorbed by the City of LP.

Some of the critera that will require the sidewalk slab to be replaced includes but not limited to:
  1. Trip Hazard 3/4 of inch or more in height MML Standard
  2. Side Slope of Cross Slopes 1/2 inch or more per the Director a "smattering" of what other communties require. Cross slopes is when we are blending new slabs into the existing sidewalk slabs. This is not a boca requirement and Councilman Murphy is against this spec. Councilwoman Brady states this will cause a domino effect of the entire sidewalk on the street. Councilman Disanto says this will require every street in Lincoln Park to be redone.
  3. Individual slabs broken in 3 or more peices
  4. 33% of a slab pitted. marred, etc.
  5. 3/4 of inch or width holes in the slabs
Grinding opposed to replacing question.... Director is recommending that grinding not be allowed and wants to require that the slab be replaced.

However last year grinding down if sidewalk was 1/2 inch or less was allowed but since the specs require 3/4 inch or higher trip hazard slab to be replaced --- grinding spect is moot.

However, Higgins; Disanto; Brady; Murphy all want consistent handling of sidewalk replacement. They do not want another sidewalk issue last year where one was allowed to grind and another resident had to replace a slab.

Councilman Disanto; Councilman Murphy are against #2 that this is totally unreasonable and they want #2 removed.

Mayor Brown states that #2 is going to help reduce the Liability from the city and stands by #2. He states that to say we don't want a slope requirement is ill advised.

Councilman Murphy states that historically that this #2 affects the slope of the driveways which cost much more than a slab of sidewalk all because the people replacing or increasing/decreasing the slope will require in most cases the driveway slopes to be replaced, altered, etc.

Councilman Higgins states that we must be consistent.

Councilman Kandes says that Mayor & Council should not set the standards as they do not have that experience.

(note here: Councilman Disanto is VERY experienced with cement; driveways; sidewalks, etc.)

Kandes says we should have the experts come back to M&C to explain why #2 is requirement.

Director: They have not addressed the pararall to the road slopes (facing house and either side of the driveway). But that they could certainly look at that.

Walking down the sidewalk is the longitude slope.....Between the House and street is the cross slope.

Councilman Valso wants to hear from the MML Mgmt on the risk of the removal of #2.


City Attorney Ed Zelenak suggests to M&C to NOT pass any of this resolution until Gary Mejian (sp?) Director comes back with more details and information from the MML on the liability.

Councilman Murphy wants BOCA criteria as well. CA EZ states that he is not positive that BOCA covers the sidewalk replacements.

EZ states that the City has reduced their sidewalk lawsuits to date.

Presently we have $600,000 in insurance and it has in the past cost $20k per incident. Per EZ.

Councilman Kandes asked what the Cross Slope requirements are:


Councilman Disanto states we charge the taxpayers 1% for this 1% for that and now we want to make them pay for replacing sidewalk because of #2????

He said he would get a lawyer to fight this.

This resolution has been held for additonal information.

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#2  
Old 06-28-05, 9:17 am
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What sidewalks are 5 feet?

Does anyone know how to figure out the slope? (I sucked at algebra)

What would the angle of the slab be? By the Mayors reaction, he made it sound like the pitch of a roof at about 35 to 40 degrees or something.

I quick drew it out on paper, and it didn't look too steep. But, like I said, I'm not an engineer or anything.


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#3  
Old 06-28-05, 9:31 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartLP
What sidewalks are 5 feet?

Does anyone know how to figure out the slope? (I sucked at algebra)

What would the angle of the slab be? By the Mayors reaction, he made it sound like the pitch of a roof at about 35 to 40 degrees or something.

I quick drew it out on paper, and it didn't look too steep. But, like I said, I'm not an engineer or anything.


Sidewalk sections are typically five feet long, by about 36-42 inches wide. So, the five feet is from expansion joint to expansion joint. I think "pitch" would be a better general term to use.

A typical roof that is said to be 12/12, goes up 12 inches up for every 12 inches it goes horizontally, in this case making a 45 degree angle. If the pitch were 6 inches up to 12 inches horizontally, the angle would be half the steepness. so if your side walk section is pitched on the long measurement and is say 3 inches higher on one side, the sidewalk would be 3/60. Over the distance of 60 inches, the rise is 3 inches. 3 inches divided by 60 equals .05 inches of rise per inch of horizontal distance (less 1/16th of an inch rise per inch horizontal).

Maybe that will help.

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#4  
Old 06-28-05, 9:45 am
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I thought it was one of the best discussions by city council in a long time. For the most part is was just a discussion about what is the best thing to do.

Of course Cream Always Rises To The Top and it was obvious who was the driving force of the discussion. Councilman Mario DiSanto was the man with the answers, the man with the insight, the man of the hour.

Way To Go, Mario!!!

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Congratulations Councilman Mario DiSanto. The Dean of the LP Council

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#5  
Old 06-28-05, 9:47 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartLP
(I sucked at algebra)
.
Well, you are female


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#6  
Old 06-28-05, 9:48 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Magoo
I thought it was one of the best discussions by city council in a long time. For the most part is was just a discussion about what is the best thing to do.



You are so right Magoo! All too often resolutions get passed without serious consideration by M/C. I like to hear these debates, but most are cut too short by mayor brown due to his wanting to end the meeting and go home.

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#7  
Old 06-28-05, 10:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie
You are so right Magoo! All too often resolutions get passed without serious consideration by M/C. I like to hear these debates, but most are cut too short by mayor brown due to his wanting to end the meeting and go home.


The perils of a part time mayor....he had already put his time in for the day at his real job.


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#8  
Old 06-28-05, 11:06 am
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I think we are lucky in incident there is nothing about cement Mario don't know, I am 100% confident in his understanding of the situation and what is best, and even in the past when Mr. Murphy and Mr. DeSanto snip at each other in this case I am sure Mr. Murphy trust Mario too. He has only been doing cement work for like a bazillion years!!

Its good to see them actually talk thru something before they just pass it, it would have been nice had they done this 18 months ago!!

This is what council should do sit and discuss look at all the angles get all the info they can.

Way to go guys!!!

Rocky


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#9  
Old 06-28-05, 11:09 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky

Its good to see them actually talk thru something before they just pass it, it would have been nice had they done this 18 months ago!!

This is what council should do sit and discuss look at all the angles get all the info they can.

Rocky


Yeah, unlike the Fireworks debacle last summer. Perhaps Vaslo and Brown have been working in Fireworks as long as Mario has been in cement.


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#10  
Old 06-28-05, 3:10 pm
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Ahhh

The age old sidewalk debate

I like the part about 33% being marred or pitted

There's certainly a difference between stones missing and that of marred or pitted

The old sidewalks were made with stones of which many times were on the surface of the sidewalk and came out, but the condition of the sidewalk was still in great shape, but with this standard the old walks could be removed simply because stones are missing (NOT A TRIP HAZARD)

Sidewalks are 5' wide in most cases and the slope plays a very small role

The reason the slope is taken into consideration is so the water runs off to the curb side and so there is no standing water on the walk, especially in the winter when it may freeze

3/4" is interesting because they told me the thickness of a piece of cardboard of which is about 1/3"

Anywhoo, it's very late coming with our council finally looking into our sidewalk standards, but I guess better late than never

And, Councilman DiSanto knows exactly what's what with all of this stuff and all the others should set personal opinion aside and listen to him for the simple fact that he knows what he's talking about from many years of experience


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#11  
Old 06-28-05, 7:55 pm
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I agree the discussion was very nice to behold. I also appreciated the dialog on the Auditing issues. Now, if they could keep that up for the rest of the year that would be great!

And Tmh, Thanks! That does help, alittle.


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#12  
Old 08-16-05, 10:08 pm
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Re: Disanto Stands up for the Taxpayers! Sidewalk Replacement Specs Meeting June 27 2005


I bumped this topic because of all the activity going on in neighborhoods where sidewalks are being marked.


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#13  
Old 08-16-05, 10:21 pm
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Re: Disanto Stands up for the Taxpayers! Sidewalk Replacement Specs Meeting June 27 2005


In last nite's council meeting (Aug 16 2005 ) Councilman Disanto stated that he had visited several residents regarding the sidewalk replacement program.

I wanted to post a Thank You to Councilman Disanto for coming out last Friday and again earlier today (though I missed that visit) to help explain the sidewalk program and to see how the sidewalk contractor was doing.

What I am thankful for is that at least four of our council members: Murphy; Brady; Disanto; and Higgins truly look at how costs like this impact our residents and that sometimes dollars and cents don't make sense when it comes to having money to buy food or prescriptions or even pay the water bill.

They realize that they are the same people that they serve.

I Thank You All!


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#14  
Old 08-17-05, 3:28 pm
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Re: Disanto Stands up for the Taxpayers! Sidewalk Replacement Specs Meeting June 27 2005


What area of sidewalks are being done this year?


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#15  
Old 08-17-05, 4:02 pm
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Re: Disanto Stands up for the Taxpayers! Sidewalk Replacement Specs Meeting June 27 2005


South of Champaign to ????).....

There are walks marked from Champaign & Pingree towards Electric.


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