Originally posted by Mr. Magoo on 06.23.04
It is no secret the city of Lincoln Park is in a serious financial situation. There is even talk about receivership as a possibility if things do not change.

There is more talk about raising taxes a couple of Mils.

Well, I have a better idea. How about Louis Rigato, City Treasurer making an effort to collect the delinquent taxes in the city? I looked at the Wayne County website regarding delinquent taxes and made an amazing discovery. The taxes owed the city is at an all time high.

http://www.waynecounty.com/pta/Disclaimer.asp

I did a quick check of businesses on Fort street between Outer Drive to Southfield. In this one mile stretch, the amount of delinquent taxes owed the city is over $75,000. Think how much is owed throughout the entire city? Must be in the millions of dollars.

This is only Real Property Taxes. How much Personal Property taxes are owed to the city?

We need to get the City Treasurer working. It is his duty as Treasurer to collect taxes. During the last election, former Mayor Sall pointed out how much money was owed the city on Personal Property Taxes. At that time, local businesses owed $1.3 million.

Just think what the city could do with $1.3 million?

Time for the Treasurer to get to work.

Collect the delinquent Real Property taxes of businesses and residents

Collect the delinquent Personal Property taxes of the businesses.

Save the city. Mr Rigato, it is in your hands.

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I took a look at this site, very interesting. I have to say I was rather appalled at the amounts past due and the # of properties. At first I thought the (45) next to LP indicated the number of properties, but I now think this is just some type of city code. There are many, many more than just 45!

I noticed that on some properties it did not list a dollar amount owed, it just stated:

PLEASE CONTACT LINCOLN PARK TREASURER'S OFFICE AT (313) 386-1800 FOR PAYMENT INFORMATION.
THESE TAXES ARE NOT PAYABLE AT THE WAYNE COUNTY TREASURER'S OFFICE.

So are these instances that are real bad, or the opposite, they are newly delinquent?

Does anybody know what the standard process is for collecting these delinquent taxes? I am sure there are letters sent, but at some point does the city or county turn it over to a collections agency? Is there a point that the city/county can take the property, or take some form of disciplinary action?

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As noted in another post, look up Johnny's Nurseries on both Dix and Outer Drive (there are four listings). Close to a total of $60,000. And that is just ONE property owner.

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I pulled up "fort" in lincoln park and 145 businesses were listed. That sounds like the majority of buisinesses on fort street.

That is absolutely crazy!

One thing I would like to add tho, is these businesses are not in business to defraud the city of money it owes them. Times are tough right now and the taxes are not being paid because they need the cash flow for other business operations. This is one of the reasons Robin and I recommended the Business / Council Town Hall Meetings so that Businesses and the city can brainstorm on ways to help grow our lincoln Park buisinesses and to offer speakers and resources to our LP buisinesses to help keep them abreast of issues and things that are available to them that will be beneficial to them.

Once the cruise is over, we will begin trying to come up with an initial "agenda" and then turn the reigns over to the head of the project and the businesses themselves.

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Don't forget our Treasurer isn't too prompt about sending the tax to the county. Many people get stung by an error in our Treasurer department.

Either way this department has to kick it into gear. Start collecting the tax and ensure those who paid are credited with the county.

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Right on Iheart! By the way, the tax situation has gotten so bad that the Treasurer and Controller are working with the City Manager to HIRE a COLLECTION FIRM! As a former City Treasurer, who went door to door and talked individually with our business people about tax delinquency, I don't think we should be spending our city's money to hire an outside agency! In fact, I personally offered my services as an experienced former City Treasurer to the city, FREE OF CHARGE! I WAS TURNED DOWN ON TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS! I guess we arn't so broke after all!

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Mr. Murphy,

How many people are in the treasurers office? There is Lou, but isn't there also some other person in there making a decent salary as well as other staff that help with administering the office?

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Mr. Murphy, I'd like to know who turned down your services?

This is ridiculous! I can understand concerns they would have about an average citizen doing this, but you are on the council, have the experience, and it would save the city thousands! What is the deal with some of these people around here? I am so sick of seeing money wasted then the same people turn around and cry there is no money!

Hmmff: So a collection firm stands to make what, 10-20% off the top? So the city just hands over more money that could do a lot of good around here!

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About a year ago when the tax problem first came up, I sent the City Treasurer a formal letter advising him that I would donate my time to his office FREE of charge to collect the back taxes. I never received a response, even after mentioning it again at our council meeting. The second time was just a few weeks ago when I read the minutes of the City Managert's meeting that stated that the city was considering going out to hire someone. I took a copy of those minutes and gave them to the City Manager with a written response message advising him that my offer of donating my time had not been accepted by the Treasurer! Since that time, several weeks passed,the money has not been collected, and I have not been contacted by anyone to take me up on my offer. I take both incidents as a "thanks , but no thanks" ! Someone did mention that it may some how be a conflict for a city Councilman to be collecting the Treasurer's taxes, but I believe a conflict would occur only if I got paid and I said I would DONATE my time FREE! You know the government...it' easier just to pay someone else to do it than to get it done inhouse!

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This does need to be brought under control. I lived in ecorse my whole life and moved out of there due to the city being in receivership and in financial unstableness. I hope this doesn't become a trend in l.p. If you have never seen neighborhoods and communities crumble in an instant it's not a pleasant sight.

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TAMurphy wrote:
I took a copy of those minutes and gave them to the City Manager with a written response message advising him that my offer of donating my time had not been accepted by the Treasurer! Since that time, several weeks passed,the money has not been collected, and I have not been contacted by anyone to take me up on my offer.







Councilman Murphy, this is unacceptable. You are the city managers boss, what do you mean he has not responded to you------------a council member! The city manager owes you a response in any case.

Question I have is this. It was my understanding that after two or three years (can't remember the amount of time) the unpaid tax bill was turned over for legal proceedings undertaken by the city to foreclose on the property for the unpaid amount. Is this being done? Once the property was legally titled to the city, they then turned around and sold it.

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I just did a quick check of Dix between Outer Drive and Southfield. Coincidentally, it also comes to over $75,000 in unpaid real property taxes. That is over $150,000 in unpaid read property taxes on two streets. Dix and Fort (between Outer Drive and Southfield)

Just how much money is out there?

Here is an interesting item. The Atlantis Lounge is delinquent in their Personal Property Taxes. Unfortunately, the actual amount of personal property taxes are not listed on the site. But why is the city letting this place get away with unpaid taxes?

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Municipality Parcel ID Property Type 45 - LINCOLN PARK 45999000248000 PERSONAL Property Address 863 DIX, LINCOLN PARK MI 48146 Taxpayer(s) ATLANTIS LOUNGE PLEASE CONTACT LINCOLN PARK TREASURER'S OFFICE AT (313) 386-1800
FOR PAYMENT INFORMATION.
THESE TAXES ARE NOT PAYABLE AT THE WAYNE COUNTY TREASURER'S OFFICE

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I heart I disagree with you. Times ARE tough, but one of the risks of self employment is you must learn how to use the funds you have available, and if you are short, you borrow or pull from your personal savings. Paying taxes is one of the costs of doing business and if you can't pay your bills, you need to reevaluate your business plan. Or takes less profits from the business.

By the way, I see McCraffy's passed their cruise permit, did they end up paying their tax & water bill?

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lp_wannabe wrote:
I heart I disagree with you. Times ARE tough, but one of the risks of self employment is you must learn how to use the funds you have available, and if you are short, you borrow or pull from your personal savings. Paying taxes is one of the costs of doing business and if you can't pay your bills, you need to reevaluate your business plan. Or takes less profits from the business.

By the way, I see McCraffy's passed their cruise permit, did they end up paying their tax & water bill?







Lp_wannabe..my point exactly on why the town hall meetings will benefit our businesses.

I think you took what I was saying the wrong way. I'm not trying to come out and say our business owners are ignorant or anything so I hope no one thinks that is what I think of them. I do agree taxes are part of doing business and should be part of the buisiness plan; including a solid budget and a marketing strategy.

My phrase from the other post was: This is one of the reasons Robin and I recommended the Business / Council Town Hall Meetings so that Businesses and the city can brainstorm on ways to help grow our lincoln Park buisinesses and to offer speakers and resources to our LP buisinesses to help keep them abreast of issues and things that are available to them that will be beneficial to them.

I never condoned not paying taxes..I just recognized it as a reality in this town, and perhaps there are things our town can do to help these businesses be able to pay thier taxes, by giving them resources that will help them build solid profitable businesses.

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TAMurphy wrote:
Right on Iheart! By the way, the tax situation has gotten so bad that the Treasurer and Controller are working with the City Manager to HIRE a COLLECTION FIRM! As a former City Treasurer, who went door to door and talked individually with our business people about tax delinquency, I don't think we should be spending our city's money to hire an outside agency! In fact, I personally offered my services as an experienced former City Treasurer to the city, FREE OF CHARGE! I WAS TURNED DOWN ON TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS! I guess we arn't so broke after all!

NO WAY! This should NOT BE Allowed on any level!

I take absolute exception to this until all avenues (proven that they were done) have been exhausted by our city. What steps has our Treasurer's Office taken thus far to collect these taxes? Which bright bulb in our administration came up with the idea of hiring a collection agency instead of taking avenues already available and doing the job that we pay them for?

Did you know that Collection agencies will keep a good 1/3 of any monies they collect "IF" they collect.

• Has our Treasurer's Officer placed a collection item on the delinquent payer's credit report?
• How many letters, if any, have been sent to the delinquent payer?
• What assistance have we asked our of City Attorney Ed Zelenak?
• Can this be added to the real property taxes owed and then the real property be placed in jeopardy of being seized after two years?
• Why not have Duchane earn some of that $6875 per month that we are paying him and have him put to use that power of speech he has and have him assist the Treasurer's personnel to get this job done?

If we end up hiring a collection agency to do the job of the treasurer, then I say that whole dept needs to be fired and Duchane too for not stepping up to the play and helping that dept be successful.

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Hold it, I was always under the impression most Collection Agencies are paid from the money collected. If they collect nothing, they get nothing.

I am not in favor of turning this over to a collection agency at this time. But if the Treasurer doesn't get off his butt, then we have to do something.

Getting a share of the money collected by the agency is better than nothing.

The Treasurer has to start moving. The "Learning Curve" is over. He either knows the job by now or he never will.

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what do you mean "if he doesn't get off his butt"?

I had a question earlier this week that still hasn't been answered.

There's the treasurer, a deputy treasurer and a few office staff that administer that building. What the heck is the problem?

When I did receivables for Fairlane Ford, I collected between a quarter of and half a million dollars in overdue (past 6 months some of them) receivables made up from customers, insurance companies, and other departments within the dealership.

If I could do that at 21 years of age (and you know how insurance companies are) then what is the problem here? If he doesn't get off his butt.....ohmigosh.

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DonDiego wrote:
Hold it, I was always under the impression most Collection Agencies are paid from the money collected. If they collect nothing, they get nothing.

I am not in favor of turning this over to a collection agency at this time. But if the Treasurer doesn't get off his butt, then we have to do something.

Getting a share of the money collected by the agency is better than nothing.

The Treasurer has to start moving. The "Learning Curve" is over. He either knows the job by now or he never will.







You are correct most Collection Agencies get no $$ if no $$ is collected.

But look at the whole picture...what is LP gaining when you take into consideration all the money we have budgeted for the Treasurer's office?

They ARE NOT earning their keep and we would NOT be gaining anything from the little tidbit that the collection agency's receive.

We should be able to turn those unpaid personal taxes and attach them to real property in Lincoln Park and/or go for a judgment (with our City Attorney's help) and and get ALL the monies owed to Lincoln Park.

Going to a collection agency is a 100% COP OUT! And whoever had that brainy idea doesn't know what the heck they are doing.

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DonDiego wrote:
Getting a share of the money collected by the agency is better than nothing.







Hold On DonDiego, that is money that belongs to the city, not an outside agency. This is the WORST time to be coughing up 10-20% in fees. This money is owed and that is final. We would be better off in the long run to be patient and collect the total amount. I know people will say something is better than nothing, but long term they have to pay, even to sell the property. Like stated earlier, after a certain amount of time, take the property. We all know that 80% of these business and homeowners will act when the heat is turned up. Once the heat is turned up, they will refinance or do whatever it takes, but now it is a low priority for them and we need to change that. Like Robin said, we need to exhaust every resource before giving away money.

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